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Nilay answers one of the biggest Decoder question we received last year: what’s the deal with CarPlay, and why does it come up so much?
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Nilay on why Flock is provoking a new kind of surveillance backlash: “We passed the Patriot Act. We militarized the police. We started doing warrantless wiretaps. Literally none of that stuff caused this amount of panic.” #tech #politics #ai
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Google CEO Sundar Pichai on the backlash against AI technology: "I don't think humans have evolved to process this much change... It really makes sense why there is anxiety around this technology."
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LexisNexis is one of the most important companies in the entire legal system. For ages it's been where you went to look up case law and do legal research. There isn’t a lawyer today who hasn’t used it — it’s fundamental infrastructure for the legal profession, just like email or a word processor.
But in 2025, apparently nobody can resist the siren call of AI, and LexisNexis is no different. The first word CEO Sean Fitzpatrick said to describe LexisNexis wasn’t “law” or “data,” it was “AI.” And I had questions, because so far AI has created just as much chaos and slop in the courts as anywhere else.
Watch as Nilay talks to CEO Sean Fitzpatrick about the implications of AI hallucinations in the courtroom, how AI may uproot the apprentice model of the law profession, and LexisNexis’ place in the Originalist debates currently sweeping the higher courts. Let me know what you think in the comments below. #Decoder #Law #AI #Podcast
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Bluesky's new CEO Toni Schneider on the platform's reputation for being a liberal bubble: "Yes, we definitely want that to change. It is already changing. It certainly wasn’t designed to attract one specific group of people."
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Nilay asks Puck CEO Sarah Personette about her company’s structure, which involves giving equity to employees, though she says there’s “no exit strategy at the current point.”
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Everyone would probably hate A.I. less if we could just see some upside to it. But despite all the investment—into the companies, into infrastructure like data centers, so much into marketing—it’s widely known: not only does artificial intelligence suck, it’s also ruining our lives.
Guest: Nilay Patel, co-founder and editor in chief of The Verge.
Video production by Evan Campbell
New York Governor Kathy Hochul on Mayor Zohran Mamdani going after billionaires and tech companies: "The mayor has his own approach, but I think overall we both want New York City to succeed."
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Brendan Ballou, founder of the Public Integrity Project, explains breaking the arbitration system: “mass arbitration is really a way to turn arbitration on its head.” Listen to Decoder wherever you get your podcasts or watch the full episode on YouTube.
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Former DOJ antitrust chief Jonathan Kanter on the hypocrisy in the AI safety debate: "If you believe your product is going to destroy humanity, don't built it... Companies have an obligation today to build safe and secure products and the pace of innovation isn't an excuse not to do that."
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Hey everyone, Nilay here. You might remember I took a break from Decoder last year — we had a baby, so I took some leave. In my place, we had an excellent slate of guest hosts, and we’ve been working hard to bring you those episodes in full video since we launched our official Decoder YouTube channel.
So today, we’re featuring a really great interview conducted by my very good friend Joanna Stern, now the founder and CEO of New Things, and Ford CEO Jim Farley. Joanna pulled some exclusive news out of Jim at the time, including some really telling quotes on Trump’s tariff policy, on Ford competing with Chinese EVs, and the company's stance on Apple CarPlay. #ford #evs #cars #china
0:00 Intro
0:33 Host intro
1:55 Interview starts — Joanna Stern & Jim Farley
4:55 Ford Universal EV Platform
16:27 How Ford is structured to build the new platform
24:04 What is "Gemba"?
25:16 Restructuring Ford & blue-collar jobs in America
31:49 Nilay call-in: locked Mustang ECUs
36:10 Tariffs & the Trump administration
42:48 CarPlay & Ford's digital strategy
53:57 Final pitch: Jim tries to sell Joanna a Ford
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Today I’m talking with Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky, who run the Creators Division at United Talent Agency. UTA is an enormous talent agency, and Ali and Raina's creators division represents some of the biggest creators and influencers in the world. So I really wanted to know how Raina and Ali identify up-and-coming talent, how they work with that talent to build durable businesses, and what the machinations of being a top creator actually look like in practice.
0:00 – Cold open: "the capital is not the challenge"
0:57 – Intro: Welcome to Decoder, guest introductions
2:48 – Ali & Raina's backgrounds, UTA Creators division history
9:57 – Agency vs. management structure explained
15:03 – Decentralization of talent and media companies
17:26 – Platform-agnostic strategy, surviving algorithm changes
21:46 – How they make decisions (magic vs. logic)
25:24 – Judging brand deals, "psychic ability" and gut instinct
29:44 – Identifying and signing early talent
35:14 – Commission structures and deal economics
39:21 – Creators launching physical product businesses
41:24 – The "influencer cliff" concept, Patrick Starrr case study
46:03 – Creators as marketers, commercialization pushback
51:47 – AI, YouTube/Meta, and the future of platforms
59:41 – Protecting creators' likeness and voice from AI misuse
01:03:00 – Lightning round: what's next, closing
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Hank Green, YouTuber and former owner of Complexly, says there were many moments he and his team could have chased profits or sold his education company for a lot of money: “The impact matters more to me.”
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Former DOJ antitrust chief Jonathan Kanter on how you could regulate AI like the aviation industry: "You have a responsibility to build safe and secure products... Perhaps there should be robot jail for [AI] agents."
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Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince on using AI to determine which employees to promote: "There's plenty of Black Mirror horrible ways this stuff can go wrong... If every promotion system is made by a totally unaccountable AI system, that seems wrong."
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Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman said it was "dangerous" for rivals like Anthropic to act as if AI models like Claude could be considered alive: "It’s very dangerous to project potential rights onto beings, tools, and agents that have the potential to be significantly more capable than us in many respects."
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Ring’s controversial Super Bowl ad for Search Party, a camera feature for finding lost dogs, has kickstarted a major debate around AI surveillance and the tech industry’s relationship with law enforcement.
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Nilay asks The New York Times' Ryan Mac why so many rules are being bent or broken for Elon Musk and the SpaceX IPO: "I just think the normal levers of accountability for someone like that have gone out the window... we’re along for the ride."
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Nilay on the argument that some tech leaders shouldn't be given a platform on Decoder: "I just think that this answer about platforming CEOs and giving them free publicity reflects a kind of nihilism that I’m actively trying to get away from."
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I think privacy means something really different now that everything is recording all the time! (This is my first yap video pls be kind)
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David Risher was on Lyft's board for years, but only stepped in as CEO in 2023, to help turn the company around. He's done pretty well so far, but there are still a lot of open questions for him to face. It's not just competition for riders and drivers Lyft has to deal with; it’s the future of transportation itself, and new AI tools that might take apps like Lyft out of the equation entirely.
Watch my full conversation with David and subscribe to The Verge for ad-free Decoder audio feeds, exclusive newsletters, and more at more https://www.theverge.com/subscribe
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Nilay asked LexisNexis CEO Sean Fitzpatrick to pose a question about the constitutionality of birthright citizenship to the company’s AI chatbot, considering birthright citizenship is now under attack by the Trump Administration.
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The New York Times' Ryan Mac on Elon Musk and SpaceX's outrageously large addressable market of nearly $30 trillion: "Cool. Show me how you got there. And it’s just like, 'Trust me, bro.'"
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It’s time for our annual Fourth of July grill episode here at Decoder, which is when we invite the CEOs of outdoor cooking companies onto the show to explain just how their businesses kind of look like every other business. And this is a very special edition.
Today we’re talking to Roger Dahle, the CEO of Weber Blackstone, a full circle moment for Decoder. Roger was our first-ever grill CEO on the show back when he was the CEO of just Blackstone. Five years later, Roger now runs one of his biggest competitors, after Blackstone announced a merger with Weber in 2024. So we talked about that process, and how Roger is managing the integration of these two grilling giants. #weber #blackstone #grilling #griddles #cooking
0:00 - Cold open
1:07 - Episode introduction & guest background
2:45 - Interview begins
3:54 - How Blackstone & Weber came together
5:46 - The SPAC deal that fell apart
6:33 - The merger & FTC antitrust review
8:13 - Competition & private label brands
11:13 - Weber's business challenges
14:12 - Blackstone culture vs. Weber's siloed structure
16:51 - MAP pricing strategy
20:03 - Integration: year one
22:27 - Aiming for world-class operations
26:35 - Company structure: one company, two brands
27:45 - Weber Slate griddle
29:46 - Unified R&D team
33:12 - Defining the two brands
33:54 - Decision-making framework
35:59 - People decisions during integration
40:44 - Accessories & recurring revenue
41:26 - Tariffs, manufacturing & energy prices
46:55 - Smart/connected technology
48:57 - Customers trading down to charcoal
51:38 - Weber kettle pricing & innovation
53:32 - Product longevity & warranties
55:50 - Influencer philosophy
1:04:25 - Finding the next new customer
1:07:52 - Griddle rust & product development
1:08:22 - Outro
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Here’s Nilay on MS NOW’s Money, Power, Politics with Stephanie Ruhle talking about Mark Zuckerberg’s claim that he was unfamiliar with the term “doomscrolling.” Do you buy it? #meta #zuckerberg #socialmedia
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Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi partially blames "fear mongering from the press" for the public's negative perception of AI.
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LexisNexis CEO Sean Fitzpatrick says he thinks AI might be capable of doing 80% of the work of drafting a legal decision, but that judges and lawyers will still need to do the final bit of deep, analytical work that a language model can’t do.
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Our guest today is Cisco CEO Chuck Robbins. Cisco is one of those big companies that everyone has heard of but most of us don’t have to interact with very much; they’re not really a consumer brand. But without Cisco's actual routers and switches and silicon — and the software to make those things work — there’s no internet, no cloud, and no AI.
But a data center is a really unpleasant neighbor to have, and there’s robust opposition to new data center builds all over the country. So I had to start by asking what feels, strangely, like one of the most urgent questions of the moment: Should we build data centers in space? #ai #cisco #data #tech
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IBM was instrumental to the entire 20th century of computing — but it's a lot harder for most of us to see what it's been up to during this century. That's because it's fully an enterprise company, and CEO Arvind Krishna says that business is booming.
But there’s a huge change coming to that business as well, as Watson-style deep learning has given way to LLMs and generative AI. Sure, Arvind says IBM got there a little too early. But he doesn’t seem concerned that IBM would be stuck on the sidelines.
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Superhuman CEO Shishir Mehrotra apologized for the company’s “expert review” feature on Grammarly, which created AI clones out of writers without their permission. “It deeply pained me to feel we under-delivered” for creators, he says.
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Bloomberg chief Apple correspondent Mark Gurman on Apple's new "ambient listening" feature on Apple Watch: "Still a surveillance device. I’ll be honest with you. I can’t believe they did it... first of all, read the room."
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A lot has changed on the internet, in the creator landscape, and at Patreon itself since CEO Jack Conte was last on the show in 2021. AI and platform shifts have stolen creator content and decimated artists' reach and revenue streams, and Patreon has made some pretty existential changes to the way it works in response. #patreon #creators #ai #tech
0:00 – Intro
3:06 – How has Patreon changed in 5 years?
3:51 – The death of follower-based feeds
10:51 – Tell me about Patreon right now
18:44 – Jack's decision-making framework
31:07 – How are you bridging the AI divide?
37:24 – What AI is doing to creators
41:28 – Patreon's AI strategy (the bullseye)
43:25 – Preventing AI slop on Patreon
45:22 – Patreon vs. Substack
49:24 – Payment processors & content policy
55:42 – The Apple tax
1:00:26 – Creators owning their audiences & the open web
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Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman on regulating AI: "We have a long history of many decades of regulation that has worked incredibly well, so well that you barely notice it."
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Nilay Patel previews two new Decoder interviews with Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman and former DOJ antitrust chief Jonathan Kanter about AI safety, regulation, and whether the industry needs to slow down. #ai #technology #tech
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Former DOJ antitrust chief Jonathan Kanter on how China plays into the AI safety debate: "It's largely a convenient boogeyman... This idea that the only way to compete with China is to let us deliver unsafe products is ridiculous."
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YouTuber Adam Conover on what algorithmic recommendation is doing to creativity: "When you are just chasing the algorithm for every single click, it disincentivizes experimentation."
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We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: we’re talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software.
There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test. #privacy #cybersecurity #proton #surveillance #tech
0:00 Cold open
0:50 Intro
2:57 What is Proton?
3:56 Architecture over benevolence
5:14 Two structural pillars: encryption and the paid business model
6:21 Do users understand what they're really buying — tech or trust?
8:24 Where does that trust actually come from?
10:04 Privacy as control, not secrecy
11:38 Corporate structure as "defense in depth"
11:56 Is Mail still the core moneymaker? Product growth breakdown
13:18 B2C vs B2B pressure and enterprise ambitions
15:12 AI and enterprise data — the Lumo pitch
17:35 Proton's corporate structure: ~650 people, the Proton Foundation
19:14 Founder Andy Yen and the foundation's guardian role
19:55 Insulated from capitalism? The honest answer
21:33 Comparison to OpenAI's foundation collapse
23:03 No VC investors — how that changes incentives
24:20 Internal org structure: divisions vs functional teams
27:01 Decision-making, culture, and hiring philosophy
33:07 Chat control, backdoors, and government pressure
36:04 The Stop Cop City case and Swiss MLAT requests
39:16 Could Proton leave Switzerland? Threats and contingencies
42:12 Chat control in the EU — would Proton really leave?
47:47 The impossibility of a "good guys only" backdoor
52:11 Zero-knowledge proofs and age verification alternatives
1:00:03 Why isn't Apple pushing to be the age verifier?
1:06:15 AI's impact on software engineering
1:14:02 AI, mass surveillance risk, and data appetite
1:17:07 Building consent-based data sharing (mailing lists, integrations)
1:18:52 Closing thoughts and sign-off
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Former President Barack Obama sat down with The Verge’s editor-in-chief and Decoder host Nilay Patel to talk about AI, social networks, and how to think about democracy as both of those things collide. The conversation, which took place just hours after President Joe Biden signed his executive order on AI, covers some of today’s biggest issues in tech and policy. Of course, we also had to ask Obama what apps he has on his homescreen. #AI #Technology #Podcast
Read more: https://www.theverge.com/e/23712912
0:00 Intro
0:30 Biden’s executive order on AI
05:38 Tech regulation & avoiding mistakes of social media
11:30 Why AI companies are asking for regulating
14:52 Silicon Valley’s pushback against regulation
17:35 AI rules and who’s responsible for following them
19:43 Should tech platforms be treated as common carriers?
22:57 Regulating around the First Amendment; copyright law
25:08 Red Lion v. FCC & the Fairness Doctrine
28:26 The rise of AI-generated social feeds
33:41 AI copyright lawsuits & labor effects
39:47 Obama’s experience using AI chatbots
41:39 Obama’s homescreen apps
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Sarah Personette is the CEO of Puck, a media company that's been around for about five years. Puck hires big star reporters who write newsletters as part of a subscription bundle. Those newsletters are often must-reads in their industries, and those reporters get equity in Puck and a share of the company's revenue.
It's a place where the financial incentives of the influencer economy crash right into the rigors of traditional journalism — and as regular Decoder listeners know, I have a lot of questions about how those two things work (or don't) in the modern media landscape. #media #tech #journalism #influencer
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Today, we’re talking with Skydio CEO Adam Bry, who runs the leading U.S. maker of autonomous drones. We covered a lot in this conversation, including Skydio’s work with the police and the US government at a time when military use of AI is more controversial than ever, competing with Chinese drones against the backdrop of the Trump’s administration’s DJI ban, and why Skydio’s customer base is made up more of utility companies than you might suspect. #ai #drones #skydio #tech
Watch our Skydio X10 drone demo here: https://youtu.be/3Vd6b56Mg6U
0:00 – Intro & Overview
1:57 – Interview Begins
2:37 – What Is Skydio?
5:32 – Autonomous Flight & Computer Vision
11:14 – Company Size, Structure & Funding
14:18 – Talent Philosophy & Hiring
19:38 – Decision-Making Framework
22:23 – Hardware vs. Software & AI/Vibe Coding
26:25 – US Ban on Chinese Drones & Manufacturing
32:05 – China Sanctions & DJI Competition
35:44 – Why Skydio Left the Consumer Market
37:46 – Drone Pricing & First Responder Costs
42:17 – Global Markets & Tariff Protection
47:08 – Surveillance, Policing & Civil Liberties
58:27 – Military Red Lines & AI Ethics
1:02:59 – Defense Contractor Identity & Recruiting
1:06:59 – Will Skydio Make Consumer Drones Again?
1:07:43 – Outro
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Today, let’s talk about the looming AI monetization cliff, and whether some of the biggest companies in space can become real, profitable businesses before they careen right off it. My guest today is Hayden Field, who’s our senior AI reporter here at The Verge. She’s been keeping close tabs on both Anthropic and OpenAI, and how these two companies, both slate to go public this year, tell us a whole lot about the AI industry in 2026. #ai #anthropic #openai #tech
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It’s become an annual tradition to have Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi join us in the studio when he comes to New York for Uber’s big Go-Get event every year. This year, the big news was that Uber's expanding into a much larger platform for travel, starting with hotel booking and services like personal shopping.
Uber is going so far as to call this an everything app, so I wanted to see how far Dara thinks everything actually goes — and whether he’s feeling pressure to own more of the user experience in a world where AI companies keep promising that their chatbots will book all the cars for you.
0:00 – Intro
0:56 – Episode overview
3:57 – Decision-making framework (one-way vs. two-way doors, smart risk-taking)
10:37 – Uber's org structure & new President/COO Andrew MacDonald
16:09 – Platform bet: mobility + delivery flywheel
16:50 – Hotel booking partnership with Expedia & travel features
31:34 – AI agents & partnerships (ChatGPT, Gemini, Alexa) — are they sending rides?
41:00 – Running a software company in 2026 (AI coding tools, vibe coding)
42:49 – Agentic coding & org structure changes (Meta, Jack Dorsey comparisons)
51:56 – Autonomy & robotaxi investments (Waymo, Rivian, Lucid, Nuro)
53:17 – The $10B AV bet & Uber Autonomous Solutions
1:06:10 – Driver pay & the future of human drivers
1:09:20 – Closing & outro
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In what's become a bit of a Decoder tradition, Nilay Patel spoke with Google CEO Sundar Pichai in person after I/O. The conference this year was all about AI, particularly a slew of actual AI products, not just models and capabilities. To Sundar, this marks the beginning of a new era for search and the web overall. So it had to be asked: what happens to the web when AI tools and eventually agents do most of the browsing for us? #Podcast #Google #Technology
00:00 Introduction
00:18 Key announcements from Google I/O
01:56 The AI platform shift
04:13 The next phase of AI
15:23 Search and web platforms
20:29 The future of web development
21:46 AI Mode and publisher concerns
28:06 The role of agents in the future web
34:08 Antitrust pressures
39:04 Future of AI and robotics
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My guest today is Sonos CEO Tom Conrad. Tom was on the board at Sonos during the disastrous 2024 app redesign that threatened to crash the entire brand, and he took over as interim CEO to right the ship during that period. About a year ago, he took the permanent role.I have been dying to have Tom on the show to talk about how the board decided to move on from previous CEO Patrick Spence, how he diagnosed the issues inside the company, and what decisions he made to fix them. #sonos #audio #tech #smarthome
0:00 Cold Open
0:36 Intro
4:20 The App Crisis
8:35 Becoming Interim CEO
15:30 Restructuring
21:43 Canceling Pinewood
26:03 Sonos 27 & Fabric
34:34 New Voice Assistant
38:28 MCP Support
40:06 Alexa Plus & Custom Agents
43:44 Where Is the Computer?
58:54 The Headphone Market After AI
1:01:31 Ace Ultra
1:07:37 What's Next
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(disclosure everyone I have ever worked for including the verge’s new parent company PMC either has deals with or is suing all of these companies but no one tells me anything because I am so annoying about our ethics policy) #ai #tech #technology
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YouTuber Adam Conover on whether Hollywood is fixable, or if we should just let the old entertainment system die: "The most pernicious lie the tech industry tells is about its own inevitability."
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YouTuber Adam Conover on what algorithmic recommendation is doing to creativity: "When you are just chasing the algorithm for every single click, it disincentivizes experimentation."
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Sadly “Amazon’s Agentic Shopping Problem” does not have the same ring to it #news #tech #technology
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It’s an election year, with a shocking amount of tech policy at stake, and Gov.Hochul has taken strong positions on almost every major tech issue there is. You'll hear us talk about the settlement Meta reached with dozens of states, including New York, and about widespread age verification. We also discussed 3D printing ghost guns; surveillance and Flock cameras; the politics of building — or not building — AI data centers; and, of course, Mayor Zohran Mamdani. #ai #politics #newyork #technology
New York Governor Kathy Hochul joins Decoder to discuss the future of AI regulation and how her office is navigating tech policy.
It is an election year, and the amount of pending legislation facing the tech industry is significant. We break down the governor's stance on critical issues ranging from the recent Meta settlement to the complex politics of building AI data centers in the state. The conversation highlights how government officials are balancing the need for innovation with public concern over surveillance technologies like Flock cameras.
We also examine the specific challenges surrounding 3D printing ghost guns and the ongoing debate over age verification online. The governor addresses how her administration is managing these topics while simultaneously trying to mitigate public anxiety about job displacement and automated government services. Whether you are following the latest state-level tech policy or curious about how administration decisions impact your daily life, this episode offers a rare look at the intersection of government and emerging tech.
Subscribe for weekly tech policy breakdowns, and let us know in the comments if you think AI in government should be more strictly controlled.
0:00 Cold Open: AI, Data Centers & Ghost Guns
0:50 Welcome to Decoder
2:38 How the Governor's Office Works
5:27 Decision-Making & Org Charts
5:56 State vs. City: Mayor Mamdani
7:31 Regulating Social Media for Kids
9:09 Meta Settlement & First Amendment
12:53 Cellphone Ban in Schools
14:18 Age Verification & Online Anonymity
17:10 Ghost Guns & 3D Printing
20:26 Surveillance & Flock Cameras
26:09 Data Centers & Bipartisan Realignment
29:25 Community Investment Framework
32:56 AI in Government
36:20 AI Anxiety & Job Displacement
39:32 NIMBYism vs. Direct Regulation
42:58 Cell Tower Lessons for Data Centers
44:14 Election Year Predictions
46:24 Closing
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Our guest today is Wassym Bensaid, the chief software officer at Rivian, and the co-ceo of Rivian’s platform joint venture with Volkswagen. That joint venture, called RV Tech, is about a year and a half old, so we wanted to ask Wassym how it all works and Rivian’s ongoing relationship with Volkswagen.
Because it’s Rivian, we also had to ask Wassym about CarPlay. But the company also just launched an AI-powered voice assistant, which Nilay got to try early. So he had a lot of fun digging into that with Wassym, too. #cars #evs #rivian #carplay #auto
0:00 – Intro
1:00 – Welcome to Decoder
3:47 – Interview begins: Wassym's role at Rivian & RV Tech
5:05 – How does RV Tech work? Rivian vs. joint venture software
7:52 – What does "software-defined vehicle" actually mean?
15:50 – How is RV Tech structured?
16:36 – The OS and its expressions across brands (Audi, Scout, Lamborghini)
19:16 – EVs vs. gas cars: is the JV only for EVs?
20:46 – How big is RV Tech?
26:34 – How Wassym makes decisions (one-way vs. two-way doors)
29:00 – Building your own AI vs. using third-party solutions
30:06 – Rivian Assistant hands-on: first impressions
33:47 – What Rivian Assistant can and can't do (safety limits)
39:05 – Buttons vs. voice: the 2024 controversy revisited
39:02 – What is "agentic" integration? (Google Calendar demo)
42:08 – Where does the logic live? Ambient computing in cars
43:56 – Is Rivian Assistant exclusive to Rivian or coming to VW?
47:06 – Local inference in the car: compute budget & bill of materials
52:38 – Buttons revisited: do you still think they're an anomaly?
54:10 – CarPlay: why Rivian won't add it (and what comes instead)
1:03:44 – Wrap-up
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